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This should doubtless be moved to the developing for Aegir section, assuming it isn't already there. But, for the purposes of pulling in all the docs from provision/docs, it can live here for a bit.

Day changed to Monday March 01 2010
<sebas891> anarcat: back
<@anarcat> sebas891: hello
<@anarcat> you are or..
<sebas891> :) I'm debugging ubuntu wifi here
<@anarcat> yay
<sebas891> ok, for aegir, I need to know how to install SPIPS
<sebas891> kind of specs ?
<sebas891> what does SPIP need to do to Aegir in order to have Aegir install it?
<@anarcat> alright
<sebas891> you see?
<@anarcat> !pi aegir/dev talk about spip integration
<@anarcat> yes
<goumbot> kproject: owner: punched in 20280=Koumbit/Aegir::Ongoing tasks/Développement
<@anarcat> I can explain to you how aegir works, now?
<@anarcat> or do you understand the setup well?
<sebas891> I'll then use these specs to make a dev (module) that will make a sort of wrapper so that it works
<@anarcat> hehe
<@anarcat> It's not obvious actually
<sebas891> anarcat: go, explain it to me a bit. Please.
<@anarcat> alright then
<@anarcat> so aegir, it's two parts
<@anarcat> the frontend and the backend
<sebas891> ok
<@anarcat> the frontend, is more or less a normal Drupal site, which runs the 'Hosting' module
<@anarcat> The backend is mainly Drush and an extension which is called Provision
<@anarcat> That, you must be aware of :)
<sebas891> Yes :)
<@anarcat> The general idea is that the frontend is the part that handles 'sites', 'platforms' etc
<@anarcat> that also, you know
<@anarcat> Each gizmo is represented by some nodes in the Drupal (system)
<@anarcat> it's all in the Hosting module's code
<@anarcat> that's Drupal again but non-standard
<@anarcat> when you want to do something with the nodes, you create 'tasks'
<sebas891> ok
<@anarcat> that's where it starts to get a bit complicated
<@anarcat> each frontend module (sites, platforms etc) declares some tasks that apply to its context
<@anarcat> install' type for 'site', 'verify' for platform etc
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<sebas891> if I understand it right, one must register it then drush installs SPIPs before passing it to the frontend, right?
<@anarcat> I'm getting there :)
<@anarcat> the tasks are registered in the MySQL DB
<sebas891> ok
<@anarcat> and after, the backend goes and reads the DB and calls the right provision command with drush
<@anarcat> eg drush provision-install
<@anarcat> the arguments are passed via STDIN, in JSON, or via arguments (--argument=valeur)
<sebas891> ok
<@anarcat> a fairly standard javascript standard
<@anarcat> so, to do new things in aegir, there's two pieces
<@anarcat> one typically begins in the backend
<sebas891> ok
<@anarcat> So you code in Drush in order to do something
<@anarcat> example: the provision_boost module 'modifies' the existing Verify tasks in order to configure the 'boost' module in an existing Drupal site
<@anarcat> A certain provision_civicrm module is supposed to do the same thing, soon :)
<@anarcat> after that, once you have it working well, you then code the stuff in the frontend that is going to pass the right arguments to the backend so that Drush / Provision can call it as needed
<sebas891> ok
<@anarcat> that's the second piece
<@anarcat> you with me?
<sebas891> so, we want a 'provision_spip' module :)
<@anarcat> maybe
<@anarcat> it's there that it starts to get complicated
<@anarcat> A priori, Drush is a very Drupal-specific application
<@anarcat> You might want to avoid working with Drush
<@anarcat> Presently, the frontend is hardcoded to call drush provision-$something
<@anarcat> But there's a bug open re: changing that
<@anarcat> So that one can call any command
<@anarcat> So long as the command respects the frontend protocol, it could be called
<@anarcat> no need to be in drush
<@anarcat> evidently, passing via dursh saves a lot of trouble because there are lots of functions already there
<sebas891> ok
<@anarcat> that's our first design decision to take
<@anarcat> drush or no drush?
<@anarcat> we can't decide this now, really
<sebas891> yeah...
<@yannn> !po
<goumbot> kproject: yannn: punched out, worked 1h35m1s on task Développement id=20081 (Gestion facturation)
<@anarcat> but I think that it will be perhaps better to try to use drush
<goumbot> kproject: yannn: worked 5h10m10s in 6 punches
<sebas891> ok
<@anarcat> the thing is that if the installer is based on drush, it can not be returned back into the SPIP community
<@anarcat> it's separate
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<@anarcat> for example, drush provision-install copies all the Drupal install.php code
<@anarcat> because install.php cannot be called via the command line
<@anarcat> in that area, d7 has come a long way
<@anarcat> And we could remove a lot of Provision code which was duplicated from Drupal
<@anarcat> that makes maintenance easier
<@anarcat> if you don't do that, you're stuck synchronising your installation code with SPIP constantly
<@anarcat> you'll always forget something
<@anarcat> If you have a separate commandline installer, it can be delivered to SPIP and they can maintain it
<@anarcat> You're just responsible for the 'glue' in aegir
<@anarcat> If you do it directly in drush, it's going to be better, but harder
<sebas891> ok
<@anarcat> so, first decision
<@anarcat> drush or no drush
<@anarcat> the second decision, I believe, is multi-spip or not
<@anarcat> presently, Drupal is multi-site
<@anarcat> and aegir utilises that to the maximum
<@anarcat> There is the concept of the platform and the site which is very present and distinct
<@anarcat> Logically, one does it similarly with SPIP
<@anarcat> in the frontend
<@anarcat> and in the backend
<@anarcat> in the frontend, it's necessary to add a 'type' of platforms
<@anarcat> ... this brings me back to the backend
<@anarcat> In drush, there's the concept of the 'engine'
<@anarcat> eg, Drupal is an 'engine' of Drush
<sebas891> yeah.. not simple, all that
<@anarcat> ok, I have lost you here :)
<@anarcat> Let's back up
<@anarcat> Drush / drupal/ aegir are multisites, presently
<sebas891> I see, I see
<sebas891> yes, ok
<@anarcat> SPIP supports multisite as well, if I understand well
<sebas891> I'm trying to think in SPIP mode, a bit, and SPIP by default, is not multisite
<@anarcat> yeah
<sebas891> Multisite is a hack, it's that that you have seen the other time
<@anarcat> Well let's put the idea that you will have SPIP 1.9.1 which will be a directory, which is going to contain many sites
<@anarcat> yes yes, but the most biggest hack, is the installer, not necessarily how it does it underneath
<@anarcat> as long as there's one database per site, that's not so bad
<sebas891> ok
<@anarcat> so
<@anarcat> you have your SPIP 1.9.1
<@anarcat> your code
<@anarcat> which is a 'platform'
<sebas891> ok
<@anarcat> like how Drupal 6.15 is a platform in aegir
<@anarcat> except there, it's going to be another type of platform
<@anarcat> the concept is not very well developed in aegir
<@anarcat> it's embryonic
<@anarcat> but there is the space and the opening for that
<@anarcat> in the community I mean
<sebas891> so, SPIP will be a type of platform, 1.9 the version of the SPIP platform type
<@anarcat> yes, that's it
<@anarcat> after that, in SPIP, I don't know how it works, but a 'site' in Drupal is a directory (sites/, a MySQL database, and an Apache config (more or less)
<sebas891> how one passes from the platform to the site, that's it, the passing. How one does the multi-spip
<@anarcat> I imagine that in SPIP, that's what's similar: it's going to create a config file for the database, create a database, etc
<@anarcat> that's it
<@anarcat> so, that's something that needs knowing in SPIP
<@anarcat> Dissect the installation code to see what it does exactly
<sebas891> yes, there are some repositories. Eg /IMG
<@anarcat> yeah
<@anarcat> similar in Drupal (sites/ .../files/pictures/ ... settings.php etc)
<@anarcat> A good way to see would be to start with a naked SPIP, install a site (a multisite!) and check what's changed
<@anarcat> Both the DB file (?)
<@anarcat> after that, you can retrace the PHP code which generates these gizmos
<@anarcat> and port it in Drush
<@anarcat> ok. that's a good start
<@anarcat> the part 'port to drush' is a horrible understatement :P
<@anarcat> I think that w'ell have to go with drush to start with
<@anarcat> it will be easier for aegir
<@anarcat> so let's take that route for the first decision
<sebas891> so, it means rewriting the multi-site code of spip in Drush :)
<@anarcat> for the multi-spip part, it's going to require searching, testing, trying perhaps to create a site in arms (?), without writing any PHP
<@anarcat> that's it
<@anarcat> after that the script in Drush
<@anarcat> ideally copying the code directly
<@anarcat> ideally, it will be an 'engine' in the Provision module
<@anarcat> I can give you a bit of code
<sebas891> ok
<@anarcat> the platform code from the backend
<@anarcat> you see there is a 'Drupal' directory there
<sebas891> yes.
<@anarcat> In there, there's an .inc file for each Provision command (install, verify etc)
<@anarcat> which has the specific code to install Drupal
<@anarcat> I'm checking where the engine is declared
<@anarcat> ./platform/ provision_drupal_drush_engine_drupal() {
<mvc> !po
<goumbot> kproject: mvc: punched out, worked 1h59m55s on task Développement id=21895 (views3 test)
<goumbot> kproject: mvc: worked 10h9m20s in 5 punches
<@anarcat> The pass will probably declare an example function (?)
<sebas891> OK, I see
<@anarcat> make a platform/ file
<@anarcat> actually, it won't be directly in Provision, it'll be a contrib module
<@anarcat> but it will be
<@anarcat> after that, it's there where it starts to be difficult
<@anarcat> These declarations serve just to call the right engine
<@anarcat> but at the moment all that is hardcoded in provision
<@anarcat> when you do provision-install, provision won't care that you're using SPIP
<@anarcat> It assumes that you're using Drupal
<@anarcat> so it'll do things likeso
<@anarcat>  283     drush_include_engine('drupal', 'clear');
<@anarcat> au lieu de drush_include_engine($engine, 'clear')
<@anarcat> worse than that, that's
<@anarcat>   40 function drush_provision_drupal_provision_install($url) {
<@anarcat>   43   _provision_drupal_create_settings_file($url);
<@anarcat>   44   drush_bootstrap(DRUSH_BOOTSTRAP_DRUPAL_SITE);
<@anarcat>   45
<@anarcat>   46   drush_include_engine('drupal', 'install');
<@anarcat>   47   drush_set_option('installed', TRUE, 'site');
<@anarcat>   48   _provision_drupal_maintain_aliases($url);
<@anarcat> beurk
<@anarcat> That's got Drupal all over it :)
<sebas891> It's very Drupal
<@anarcat> It'll be necessary to refactor this code so that it is called only if the platform is 'Drupal'
<sebas891> so, it's asking for a rewrite of the code, there
<@anarcat> completely
<@anarcat> should probably fix the platform verification code (provision-verify) to detect what the correct platform is and store it
<sebas891> that'll make the code more proper and flexible
<@anarcat> yep that's it
<sebas891> it's no small task, all that
<@anarcat> But once it's done, it opens the door towards installing any sort of platform
<@anarcat> no, indeed
<@anarcat> but it's not so far off
<@anarcat> it's a week's work, I'd say
<@anarcat> especially since it's not in the 0.4 roadmap
<sebas891> in Aegir, are you able to push to make it more flexible?
<@anarcat> it may be blocked a bit
<@anarcat> I think it's not in the priorities prior to the 1.0 (release), which is still not far off
<sebas891> it's in the roadmap?
<@anarcat> well, it's the notion of 'API Freeze'
<@anarcat> because basically, that's the way
<@anarcat> all the concepts of the engines, of commands... that's the Aegir API
<@anarcat> which is really not stable
<@anarcat> it's changed completely between two releases
<@anarcat> So someone who will do a SPIP plugin will have a job to do to follow the next release
<@anarcat> I think the (current) focus on multiserver is not (a) bad (thing)
<@anarcat> it will surely be possible to do a huge cleanup after the 0.4 (release)
<@anarcat> it will be more open
<@anarcat> it'll be a bit difficult to push
<@anarcat> but I can try, if there realy are some good patches which return
<sebas891> So, it'll happen, but not in the short term
<@anarcat> well..
<@anarcat> the problem is that it there isn't interest in the community to do it directly
<@anarcat> everyone is whole-heartedly Drupal
<@anarcat> (it's not that) everyone is not against it
<@anarcat> but it's the not the actual community who's going to do the job
<@anarcat> They'll accept the patches
<@anarcat> but they're going to be very critical :)
<sebas891> it'll take a new (?),.. with patches (?)
<@anarcat> yes
<@anarcat> He must understand very well what I've explained above
<@anarcat> (he should log somewhere else besides) (?)
<@anarcat> in fact
<@anarcat> honestly, I don't see it arriving before 0.4 is out
<sebas891> what's cool is that SPIP is super-stable from the side of the installer
<@anarcat> because we'll want to get a beta out for Drupalcon, in April
<@anarcat> and try to keep the code stable
<@anarcat> on the other hand, it's perfectly possible to have a parallel development branch in git
<@anarcat> also
<@anarcat> one thing that is possible to do immediately, is to make a command line installer in SPIP
<@anarcat> make a clean web installer
<sebas891> that's what I thought
<@anarcat> and it'll be just a couple PHP functions which take some arguments
<@anarcat> a CLI installer
<@anarcat> in any case, it's a big job
<@anarcat> and make it in drush
<@anarcat> in fact, I would do it in two passes
<@anarcat> put:
<@anarcat> 0. test multispip in order to see how it works and successfully install a site by hand, without the web installer, just create the files and load the SQL dumps
<@anarcat> 1. code the PHP funcitons which do it, very simply, but with some arguments
<@anarcat> 2. integrate that in a Drush module, to understand how Drush works
<@anarcat> after that, we'll start speaking with aegir
<@anarcat> 3. do a code cleanup of the platform verifucation (provision-verify) in order to detect the platforms, around the engines
<@anarcat> 4. Call the right functions when a task is called, simply via the engine system
<@anarcat> 5. correct the drush module to implement the engine commands
<@anarcat> after that, do the frontend
<@anarcat> 6. add the fields in the database for the platform type
<@anarcat> 7. add the fields in the interface for choosing the platform type.. etc
<@anarcat> there you go, that's not bad
<sebas891> wow
<@anarcat> I think that 3) to 7) won't get into Aegir before April
<@anarcat> But it's possible to do the development in parallel in git
<@anarcat> 0) to 5) are in the backend
<@anarcat> 3) to 5) in provision
<@anarcat> We should seek integration with drush firstly
<@anarcat> 6) and 7) are in the frontend
<@anarcat> yes
<@anarcat> it's in order, the list
<sebas891> yes yes
<@anarcat> !snarf
<goumbot> Release goals for 0.4 |
<@anarcat>note that here, we make the choice to use drush as the backend
<@anarcat>And thus, to not do evil with Provision to digest it (?), we want to work with something other than Drupal – this is a good thing I think
<@anarcat>on the other hand, it will also be possible to implant a backend of something other than drush
<@anarcat>that itself is based on the JSON protocol
<@anarcat>This time the work is done more in the frontend
<@anarcat>And here I'm less familiar with the patent, I'm worried it's too complicated
<sebas891> with JSON?
<@anarcat>JSON is the giving format that passes the information between the frontend and the backend
<@anarcat>eg the DB passwords, the choice of the frontend user, all passed via that
<sebas891> the Drush people, are open to do management of other CMSs? You believe?
<@anarcat>No, I don't think so
<@anarcat>But who cares, Provision is
<@anarcat>Drush doesn't depend on Drupal
<@anarcat>That, that won't change
<@anarcat>It's very specific to Drupal
<@anarcat>But it can roll without it
<sebas891> The coolest thing, will be to copy as much as possible the method of Drupal installation/management (?)
<sebas891> So that it thinks it installs Drupal :) but it's SPIP
<@anarcat>ok, I'm going home
<sebas891> ok
<sebas891> thanks for the session
<@anarcat>what'll we do with all this good info
<@anarcat>I should translate it into English to do something good with it
<sebas891> copy and paste it into the wiki?
<@anarcat>ok I'll do that for the moment
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