Revision of Crazy Aegir Ideas 1: Aegir as Site Builder using Drush Make Generator or Aegir Hostmaster module derived from DrushMake.me from Tue, 04/19/2011 - 16:50

So, first off, makefiles generate platforms, not sites. All they do (and this is no small feat) is download a bunch of modules, themes, profiles, libraries, etc. and put them where you want them (under sites/all/modules/contrib, or profiles/openatrium/modules/features) Now, you can build sites based on profiles after that, but most well-built profiles come with their own makefiles to gather their dependencies. It's worth noting this current limitation of d.o's packaging system.

Second, I'm not sure what you get from such a makefile generator, as you still have to choose some subset from among the 1000's of modules out there to populate the form. You might instead just build your own platform with the modules you think worthwhile, then allow clients to build sites on that. Also worth noting is an inter-site security issue that remains to be resolved.

Finally, Drush, Git and makefiles are really tools worth appropriating. Makefiles themselves use a fairly simple declarative .info-style syntax; i.e., there are no complicated control- or data-structures as in PHP or JS development. There's already a drush generate-makefile command that will build a makefile for you from any existing site.

Without a revision control system, such as Git, development becomes a nightmare. If you make a change that breaks something, how do you roll it back? Either you have to recall any changes you made and reverse them by hand (difficult and error-prone), or you kept a backup copy of the file you changed and revert to that (in which case you're doing manually what Git does, without all the other benefits.)

Building distros is a complicated undertaking, especially if you intend to support it for any length of time. It's challenging, even with a fair mastery of the tools available to make it feasible: the Features stack (context, strongarm, ctools, etc.), makefiles, Profiler, Drush, Aegir, etc. That said, it's highly engaging and satisfying work, but proficiency in the tools of the craft are essential.

thanks for the feedback, will check the issues you mention and i agree with your views

some other attempts are http://betterwebshop.com/make and some other modules http://drupal.org/project/drush_make_ui http://drupal.org/project/drush_make_builder

perhaps there should be higher abstraction than .make

btw, i was thinking the .make would be placed in the folder that Aegir can access when making a new platform, and then it would spawn a single site off that .make

as I said, its a crazy idea, not exactly sure what or how, but I think there is something in it

ref comment #1

Current limitation of d.o's packaging system

I think anarcat has submitted a patch for this that is yet to be commited.

makefile generator

I can see what niccolo is getting at here, now the aegir .deb pkgs are available, with this sort of functionality I can see how an entirely gui based process to create a makefile, generate a platform and build a site might appeal to a wider audience

No need for all the modules/themes! I had a look at rupl's readme file for Drush Make Generator in which he states -"I loaded about 100 modules up, you may want more. I got all the data from this URL: http://drupal.org/project/usage" seems fair and logical i think.

I'm no expert but it sounds like ergonlogic is right on the money here and the "inter-site security issue that remains to be resolved" indicates to me that to

"build your own platform with the modules you think worthwhile, then allow clients to build sites on that"

is not really an option but how it should be done, where the use case is for Aegir to allow seperate clients to build sites, at least for now until the aforementioned vulnerability is fixed.

Drush, Git and makefiles

I assume we are talking about the host rather than the client here as I believe the "inter-site security issue that remains to be resolved" would be relevant if I'm not mistaken.

Totally agreed on the methods though, I am slowly working through the list, for me it's about sustainability but it is a lot to learn and really we're talking a whole new ball game here like, some next level bizz, I think perhaps these things can be a hurdle for new users who can come back to all this later, I think the advise

"In the case of web development, execute the good plan now and iterate, versus trying to perfect everything before release"

which I found in this post which mentions Eric S. Raymond and his article The Cathedral and the Bazaar, also these things seem to snowball, for instance there's no mention of "features" or "context" and that's just a start, I know that much.

drush generate-makefile command

I think getting this functionality into a drupal module is probably a good deal of the answer to this post I made recently, in which I talk about a way for drupal users who are posting to the issue queue to export a drushmake file for their site which can be attached to the issue and aid others in reproducing bugs, by providing an virtually identical environment for them to test in, I think obviously to get the same modules enabled etc we would also need an install profile generated too.

Summary

I think the idea is a good one but it does require the "inter-site security issue that remains to be resolved" if it's a feature intended to be available to clients and if it's just for the host to use then calls for getting someone to code a whole aegir module for this will probably be answered by ppl providing links to the likes of http://drushmake.me and such sites!

thanks for the feedback.

Have a look at whats happening with OpenPublic and the Apps feature... Apps are Kit Compliant Features that are installable within OpenPublic http://drupal.org/project/kit http://www.agileapproach.com/blog-entry/apps-distributions-ready-get-sta...

now, within Aegir, imagine being able to select groups of modules via the Drush Make Generator tool to create a platform

see how Open Outreach is based on a suite of Debut Features ... http://drupal.org/project/debut

will work on this more during the next 8 weeks over the summer